Beschädigter Motor 4xe

Feiertag?
  • Hallo, ich habe Probleme mit meinem 4xe S (Jahr 2021). Mir ist genau das Gleiche passiert, was ich bereits in diesem Forum beim Modell Compass 4xe beschrieben gesehen habe. Beim langsamen Vorbeifahren vor dem Haus bei niedriger Geschwindigkeit sprang der Verbrennungsmotor an, aber es war nur ein Klicken zu hören und dann war Schluss (Fehlermeldungen, Stillstand, ...). Das Ergebnis ist eine gelockerte Riemenscheibe des Zahnriemens = zerstörter Motor (gebrochene Ventile, verbogene Kolben). Das Ganze natürlich nach Ablauf der Garantie (das Auto ist 3 Jahre alt, ca. 60.000 km). Das Auto wurde anschließend in die Werkstatt abgeschleppt – geschätzte Kosten ca. 18.000 EUR (ich habe das Auto für 21.000 EUR gekauft). Es folgte eine Reparatur in einer unabhängigen Werkstatt – Austausch gegen einen gebrauchten Motor (ca. 3.500 EUR). Und als ob das noch nicht genug wäre, wiederholte sich das Problem nach ca. 10 km!!! erneut = zweiter Motor kaputt. Jetzt überlege ich, ob ich einen dritten Versuch wagen soll :/.


    Ich vermute folgenden Ablauf der Ereignisse:


    1. Der erste Schaden könnte auf einen Fehler am Motor zurückzuführen sein – eine ab Werk falsch angezogene Riemenscheibe. Dieses Problem wird auch hier im Forum erwähnt, und offenbar bin ich nicht der Einzige, dem das passiert ist.


    2. Der Schaden nach dem Austausch des „neuen“ Motors ist auf einen Fehler in der Werkstatt (kleine Werkstatt) zurückzuführen, wo die Riemenscheibe angeblich „so fest wie möglich“ angezogen wurde. Kein genaues Drehmoment oder Vorgehen gemäß der Montageanleitung, kein Klebstoff. Die Motoren wurden lediglich ausgetauscht und die Kabel angeschlossen – was höchstwahrscheinlich die Ursache des Problems war.


    Ein wenig Unsicherheit bringt in diese Erklärung das Software-Update der HCP-Steuereinheit (Version 68471312BC) ein, das von einer autorisierten Werkstatt ca. 2 Wochen vor dem ersten Ausfall durchgeführt wurde. Und das recht verdächtige Verhalten des autorisierten Servicezentrums, als das Fahrzeug zur Fehlerdiagnose dort war – dort wurde ohne mein Wissen und ohne jegliche Benachrichtigung ein Update derselben Steuereinheit von Version BC auf BJ durchgeführt!! – zwischen dem Software-Update und diesem Eingriff lagen nur 5 Wochen, und ein (heimliches) Update um 7 Versionen?


    Es stellt sich also die Frage, was in dem Fahrzeug vor sich geht – und ob ich beruhigt die dritte Motorreparatur durchführen lassen kann, in der Annahme, dass sie diesmal so durchgeführt wird, wie sie sollte.


    Ich möchte noch hinzufügen, dass sich natürlich sowohl die Vertragswerkstatt als auch der Jeep-Importeur von dem Fahrzeug distanzieren = sie lehnen jeglichen Fehler oder Mangel ab und wollen nichts mit dem Fahrzeug zu tun haben :/. Dieses Verhalten hat mich sehr enttäuscht.


    Jan

  • Does not sound good.

    1. I agree, several cases around the europe.

    2. Im wondering if they loosened the pulley before retightening? If yes, they would need timing tools as engine looses timing when pulley is loosened. I did read here 20Nm + 170 Degrees is the torque for the bolt.

    3. You dont necessary need new engine, just have them remove the cyl head and inspect the valves. We just opened one with loose pulley and all valves were straight. If valves are bent, replace and reinstall the head. (also you could check if your old engine might be repairable)

    4. I did 2 first repairs by removing timing cover and oil pan, now with 3rd one in trying to perform the work without removing them, it may work but im not 100% sure yet, much easier if i can. This one had 6 exhaust valves in pieces.

  • Does not sound good.

    1. I agree, several cases around the europe.

    2. Im wondering if they loosened the pulley before retightening? If yes, they would need timing tools as engine looses timing when pulley is loosened. I did read here 20Nm + 170 Degrees is the torque for the bolt.

    3. You dont necessary need new engine, just have them remove the cyl head and inspect the valves. We just opened one with loose pulley and all valves were straight. If valves are bent, replace and reinstall the head. (also you could check if your old engine might be repairable)

    4. I did 2 first repairs by removing timing cover and oil pan, now with 3rd one in trying to perform the work without removing them, it may work but im not 100% sure yet, much easier if i can. This one had 6 exhaust valves in pieces.

    Thanks for the comment. During the initial repair, I used a new engine because of the cost—it was cheaper than the replacement parts for the old one. The plan is to try to repair the original engine, which I have stored in the garage, and then swap it out for the current one. As for the parts, it’s just as you say—hopefully we can stay under 1,500 EUR (the valves are broken and at least two pistons are bent). The key question, though, is whether this will be enough (assuming the mechanical work is done correctly, of course) :/. Is there any need for further intervention on the control unit—sensor pairing, calibration, etc.? As I’ve discovered, this is a major problem—no one knows how to do it, no one wants to do it, and they refer me to an authorized service center for access to the Stellantis manuals.

    In hindsight, I realized that the mechanic actually didn’t need to tighten that pulley on the second engine, because it was part of the new engine—but the timing belt had to be adjusted because the original P1f starter-generator was connected to the new block. He definitely used a valve setting tool, though. Apparently, the engine ran at idle all day; the problem occurred again only while driving, when the engine started at low speed (approx. 16 km/h) and that was the end of it.

  • Jamar: Remember you dont need to disassemble everything, just remove head and pistons if the valves have hit.


    If head is damaged, then either try to find used one (couple for sale at the moment) and i can help you getting the valves, pistons etc if needed. less than 1000 eur for the parts if head is ok, less than 500 if pistons are ok.


    Regarding what you write here: "In hindsight, I realized that the mechanic actually didn’t need to tighten that pulley on the second engine, because it was part of the new engine—but the timing belt had to be adjusted because the original P1f starter-generator was connected to the new block. He definitely used a valve setting tool, though"


    1: I'm thinking someone misunderstood something here: If he didnt tighten the pulley, he didnt use valve timing tools, valve timing tool has crankshaft locking tool included so why would he use valve tool without using crank bolt tool?


    2: There is no timing belt, starter-generator has serpentine belt and it has auto adjuster, no need to adjust that.


    What year was your replacement engine? completely new or used one? Did it have torque mark on the pulley bolt.


    Did i show everyone my video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebsTJw8G_Tc

  • Unfortunately, I don’t remember exactly what the mechanic did to the engine a year ago—this whole thing has been dragging on for over a year now :/. I see from the posts here that several of you have already dealt with the same issue with this engine (both in the Renegade and the Compass). Can you tell me if the purely mechanical repair solved the problems, and if the cars are running normally and the issue hasn’t recurred? And what interests me most is whether (and if so, how) you also addressed any electronic modifications in the software? That’s what I’m currently having the most trouble with—I haven’t found anyone who could, knew how to, or was willing to check the electrical system after the repair.


    Jan

  • Someone more knowledgeable here should educate us about the softwares.


    But there was software update on these cars:

    Toy


    Check mopar site if yours is done, checked one i have and it is marked as done:

    Lookup FCA Vehicle Recalls by VIN | Official Mopar® Site


    They dont mention, but i have been thinking if it somehow affects max charging/boost on the starter generator, it might affect how the bolt is holding.

    Also the type of oil used affects the load on pulley when starting.

  • Hi,

    I checked that update and it looks like I should already have it installed. Based on the Z78 specs, I have a feeling this is the 2024 update—the one that caused my engine to fail 2–3 weeks later. I don’t know for sure, but given that the car was at various dealerships between February 2023 and September 2024, and the update they performed at the authorized service center (November 2024) was quite extensive. Unfortunately, I don’t know the name of that update, but I do know which control units were updated and to which software version.

    The idea that the software update might have affected the forces acting on the bolt was the first thing that occurred to me after the replaced engine failed as well :/. And it’s also a question that’s making me a little nervous about the next repair.


    But Stellantis’s approach is terrible. Service manuals and procedures are more or less secret—only authorized service centers have full access to them, and here in the Czech Republic, those centers aren’t exactly eager to tackle such complex repairs in the first place. And without those manuals, you end up working a bit “blind” :/. I found a service center where, after performing a mechanical engine repair, they’ll run diagnostic checks and perform any necessary software updates. Unfortunately, we’ll have to handle the mechanical engine repair on our own. Does anyone know any details about this kind of repair? Bolt torque specifications, special (non-standard) procedures, etc.? What do you recommend replacing as a precaution (e.g., chain tensioner, serpentine belt pulleys, etc.)?

    Thanks for the video link—I think we’re dealing with the exact same problem. My engine looks practically the same.


    It also occurred to me whether we could somehow mechanically secure the pulley against loosening—mechanically secure it with a washer or an additional bolt. So that this defect cannot happen again. I’ve seen a reference somewhere to welding a bolt in place, but that seems a bit too “permanent” to me :).


    Jan

  • Jan, i have rebuilt 2 engines, 3rd will be ready this week hopefully. My coworker bought one and he will start assembling once i supply the parts for him.


    Torques are available, instructions not so much but its not rocket science.


    Initially i thought about locking the pulley in place but new 22-> seems to be holding better, that makes me think that correct torque is the solution. The timing procedure also requires the pulley to be loose when starting as camshaft is locked first.


    Depending of the damage and mileage i would recommend:


    -head gasket

    -new valves

    -replacement head/repairing current one

    -If valves have hit pistons hard, replace pistons as they will be oval after hit(!!!)

    -timing chain if closer to 100000km


    Did you see another video i made? https://youtube.com/shorts/pyrBHewhpiw?si=YESpE9_Oeb5wn1Pz

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    I don’t know if you are already know this, but like any other car manufacturer in Europe Stellantis runs a service library at stellantisiop.com for independent car workshops. All technical information and the witech diagnostic software are available. To use the library, you have to buy first a ticket at mopartsp.com and assign it to your account. The procedure to get access to the library is very confusing, but once you made it, it’s very helpful. I used it several times. If you need assistance, just let me know.

    Ja: Compass Trailhawk 4xe MY20, Bastelprojekt Wrangler JKU MY11

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